In the summer of 1970, myself and another young publisher knocked on the door of a group of these people in north west London. We spent a couple of hours batting back and forth our differing ideas of impending Armageddon. It was great fun, and I think I still have their chart somewhere – must dig it out and see if any of it has changed. Never met another one since – didn’t realise they were still going. Oh, yes, they were definitely bat shit crazy, but I guess that was their view of me too.
Ultimate Axiom
JoinedPosts by Ultimate Axiom
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18
The Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University Cult
by cofty inas an apocalyptic cult the brahma kumaris have some similarities to the watchtower.. they believe that all humans will die during an imminent and desirable end of the world they called destruction, in order that 900,000 faithful brahma kumari followers will inherit a heaven on earth before 2036.. to outsiders, bks refer to this event as a transformation and adherents are led to believe that a heavenly royal status can be achieved after it by donating money, free labor and unquestioning mental submission to the brahma kumari leadership, who will rule the world as emperors and empresses.
the brahma kumaris leadership has sought to cover up or deny child sex abuses at its headquarters, multiple suicides of followers at centers, financial corruption and abuses, immigration abuses, the persecution of minor or breakaway groups and the breaking up of families.. with echos of russell's divine plan of the ages, time, according to the brahma kumaris, is limited to a single, identically repeating, 5,000 year period called, the cycle in which human beings procreated by the power of mind for the first 2,500 years, and will do again from 2036, and the dinosaur period existed at the time of ancient greece.
likewise, in another 2,500 years into the future, brahma kumaris world spiritual university leaders teach that abraham, buddha, christ and mohammed will all be reborn again in order to start to teach, after having re-learnt their religion under them at this time.. the bkwsu leadership continues to financially benefit from their position by encouraging their adherents to a total mental, physical and financial surrender to their god.
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Can a JW be accused of apostasy for just quoting scriptures?
by Island Man infor example, let's say an awake jw wanted to share ttatt about the true meaning of john 10:16, so he just posts on his facebook wall a couple passages of scripture with no commentary whatsoever - like this:.
"in answer he said: i was not sent forth to any but to the lost sheep of the house of israel.
- matthew 15:24.
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Ultimate Axiom
It’s worth remembering that the purge of 1980 was because those guys started reading the bible on its own. And they were not disfellowshipped for apostasy against the bible, but for apostasy against the Watchtower.
And you would just as surely be disfellowshipped for posting a string of Watchtower passages as well, especially if those passages exposed past errors.
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Why the Grand Gestures?
by bemused inwhen i visit this forum, i'm always a bit surprised by those members who, on deciding they no longer wish to be a witness, write long letters to the elders, set out their reasoning in e-mails to family and friends, attend judicial meetings to have their say etc.
i've never heard of an ex-catholic, for example, writing a resignation letter to their parish priest.. i'm a never-in so i can't appreciate the emotions these people are going through.
however they also often say a big worry is loss of contact with family and friends.
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Ultimate Axiom
Fading is not always that simple. For some it has worked a treat - some have even complained that not a single elder called on them to find out why they had stopped meetings, FS etc – they should count themselves lucky – and, as you say, make no grand gestures. The reason I faded, rather than simply tell them what I thought of it all, was the same as most people, I still had family in and I didn’t want to be disfellowshipped. But it was six years after I stopped attending meetings before the elders from the different congregations stopped calling on me, and I was treading a fine line for all that time (and I moved twice during that period, but they always knew where I was because my wife was still in). Sometimes the only way to get them out of your life is a 'grand gesture’ of some kind. And if you have no reason to fear the shunning, I’m sure it can be somewhat therapeutic.
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So have any of you seen this site?
by nonjwspouse inhttp://jehovahstrumpet.com/conjoined-twin-shuns-brother/.
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i apologize if i am double posting about this..
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Ultimate Axiom
Yes - a great spoof site - however, its Links page could do with a link to this site - that would make it even better.
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Why does Organic Chemistry prove God's exists?
by KateWild inso bring it on, and lay the evidence on me, kate (but perhaps you should start a new thread).-adam.
it does not prove god exists, there is no substantial evidence god is real.
if one is a self labeled atheist, one has no desire to see gods fingerprints in organic chemistry.
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Ultimate Axiom
"The knowledge I have in my personal experience increases the probability of a intelligent Creator"
You may be a whiz at organic chemistry, but you have a lot to learn about the laws of probability.
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Instructions To Elders Re: Pursuing Higher Education
by baldeagle inunderlining is mine.. march 6, 2012 letter.
pursue divine education:some of our brothers are pursuing higher education, feeling that they can acquire a measure of financial security.
as you are aware, the educational system varies from country to country.
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Ultimate Axiom
"heeding the warnings given by the faithful slave and its Governing Body" - hold on a minute - the FDS is the GB. Oh wait a another minute, this letter is dated March 2012 - it's already infected with 'old'light' the BOEs should just ignore it.
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Instructions To Elders Re: Pursuing Higher Education
by baldeagle inunderlining is mine.. march 6, 2012 letter.
pursue divine education:some of our brothers are pursuing higher education, feeling that they can acquire a measure of financial security.
as you are aware, the educational system varies from country to country.
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Ultimate Axiom
Doesn’t that just show how utterly scared they are of their flock developing an intellect.
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Raised On the Third Day?
by TTATTelder ini have some potentially controversial questions.. i have always wondered about these things in the back of my mind, but i would immediately dismiss them.
now i am giving myself permission to explore them further.... a lot of attention is given to how big the sacrifice was on the part of jesus and god when jesus laid down his life.
as the story goes, jesus gave his life for our sins and then was miraculously raised back to life a couple of days later.. consider this.
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Ultimate Axiom
Quite right Laika, everyone thinks they’ll get something out of it – heaven or paradise depending on what God you put your faith in. But I think the point they make is that people don’t "just" serve God for that reason - in other words they would do it anyway. I wouldn't, but maybe there are some that would.
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Raised On the Third Day?
by TTATTelder ini have some potentially controversial questions.. i have always wondered about these things in the back of my mind, but i would immediately dismiss them.
now i am giving myself permission to explore them further.... a lot of attention is given to how big the sacrifice was on the part of jesus and god when jesus laid down his life.
as the story goes, jesus gave his life for our sins and then was miraculously raised back to life a couple of days later.. consider this.
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Ultimate Axiom
Apognophos said “That's not the issue of universal sovereignty according to JWs.”
I disagree. Fundamentally Jehovah effectively said to man, “you need me to rule over you”, and He said to Satan, “man will serve me anyway, not just for the benefits”. In both cases, man and Satan (plus all the angels that followed Satan) said, “God you’re wrong, and if you give us the opportunity, we’ll prove it” And Jehovah of course wasn’t clever enough to realise that you don’t need to prove an axiom and went along with it.
And therein lies a paradox. As you don’t need to prove an axiom, in so doing Jehovah made a mistake. Therefore it cannot be axiomatic that he is infallible. But if he’s not infallible, he can’t be the Almighty God. But if He is the Almighty God, it must be axiomatic that he can’t be wrong. But he was wrong in thinking he needed to prove an axiom – and so round and round in circles we go.
It’s axiomatic to me that this whole things is nonsense.
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Raised On the Third Day?
by TTATTelder ini have some potentially controversial questions.. i have always wondered about these things in the back of my mind, but i would immediately dismiss them.
now i am giving myself permission to explore them further.... a lot of attention is given to how big the sacrifice was on the part of jesus and god when jesus laid down his life.
as the story goes, jesus gave his life for our sins and then was miraculously raised back to life a couple of days later.. consider this.
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Ultimate Axiom
I didn't think about this until the film Jesus Christ Superstar came out and it has Judas singing, "Who are you? What have you sacrificed?" Like you TATTElder, I started to think, this doesn’t make sense.
And on the universal sovereignty issue mentioned by Comatose, none of that makes sense to me either. If we, as humans, acknowledge that God cannot make mistakes, cannot be wrong, then it doesn’t need to be proved (the ultimate axiom if you like). And if we know that, then all the angels must have known that as well. So why did Jehovah throw his whole creation into chaos and evil to prove something that doesn’t need proving? Not one of those angels would have thought, “hold on Jehovah, we think Satan’s got a point, we think you may be wrong here.” To which Jehovah replied, “oh dear, I’d better prove myself then hadn’t I”. And then 6000 years of evil follow. Where's the logic in that?